unnumbered print pages

[Chris Clemens]

Rule 1.10.6 requires a row of unspaced dots 36 across the width of the line to indicate print page changes for unnumbered pages in a section of a book with photographs and captions.

I have a situation where there are several pages of photographs and captions between pages 88 and 89. At the end of 88 I inserted a TN stating print continues on page 89. This TN falls on line 25. Do I need the line of dots 36 on line one of the next braille page or is the missing print page number in the top right corner enough?

I have several pages of captions and I inserted the line of dots 36 to show where the unnumbered print pages change. BUT the last caption of one of the print pages ends on line 25. So how do I show that the next caption appears on the next print page? Should I put in the line of dots 36 on the next braille page on line one? Would it be better to leave line 25 blank so the dots 36 can fall on line 2 of the next braille page?

[Chris Clemens]

I see two issues here involving the same problem of unnumbered print pages. First, about the TN on line 25. I'm not sure why there is a TN there in the first place. None is required in this situation. The TN required for interrupted text (covered in Section 3 (3.3.3) refers to the situation in which another type of text is interrupting the flow of ongoing text while print page numbering CONTINUES. That is not the case here and 1.10.6 which covered the absence of print pages does not mention or require TN. The absence of print page numbers and the text consisting only of picture captions conveys it all to the reader.

Basically, the concern is showing a page turn that occurs on line 25 of braille. When this happens with print page number, the next braille page will carry the next print page number and there is no problem. As you know, a page turn line is NEVER placed on line 25.

The same principle applies when there are no print numbers. The empty page turn line lets the reader know that a print page has been turned. In tracking the unnumbered print pages, the braille reader has the same information the print reader has--which is, not very much. The braille reader knows about the pictures and has no page number to refer to. Same situation for the print reader. In the case of braille, it doesn't matter whether the new print page happens to fall on a new braille page. There is no print page to refer to.

So here, do nothing. Insert page turns when you can. In this case, you can't. So don't. If you absolutely had to put a TN on line 25 for some other reason, follow the same logic. If there's no print page number anyway, it doesn't matter if the new unnumbered print page falls at the beginning of a new braille page. There is never a page turn indicator on line 25.

--Joanna

[Chris Clemens]

I thought a TN about "Text continued on page 89" would be helpful since the break between page 88 and 89 is in the middle of a sentence. Should it definately come out?

I follow your logic that a new braille page with no print page number shows the braille reader that the caption is on an unnumbered page. But I'm not sure if that covers the question I had in the third paragraph. How does the braille reader know that there is a page turn when the both the print and braille unnumbered page end on line 25?

[joannavenneri]

In the middle of a sentence! Egad! I had no idea. In that case, let's leave it in. And now that I think of it, your TN is at the end of page 88, the last page with text before the fun starts. Run your TN where it falls on line 25. It explains that text is continued on page 89. Next braille page there is no print page number! It isn't page 89. The captions begin. Now the reader knows that this MUST be a new print page because there is no number, the text has been interrupted and your TN said the text would continue on page 89 and this new braille page sure isn't page 89. And there are captions that interrupt the sentence he or she was just reading!

I'm sorry. Guess I wasn't clear. The only reason we have page turn indicators is to announce the next print page. When you ask how the reader knows you turned a page that can't be identified, what difference does it make? The fact that you have arrived at the next braille page and there is STILL no print page tells the reader we're still in the land of no print page numbers. In that case, what does ANYONE refer to? What would the print reader refer to? In the absence of page numbers, that EVERYONE can refer to, both the print and braille reader will refer to the content on the those page. You know, Hey, Joanna look at the page with the windmill. Works in braille too, since you've perhaps briefly described pictures not explained sufficiently with the caption.

You can't show what isn't there. There is no way to show that the page turned right at the new braille page, but in the absence of a page number, turning that page in print is not particularly meanginful. The only thing you could do would be to run a TN that says this is a new print page. Personally, I wouldn't. I think the reader would find it annoying and intrusive because that would tell them what is obviously by reading the entire sequence. What is meangingful is the text on that new page, especially in this case. Sooner or later, either print page numbers will resume or a page change will occur where you can show it. The reader will get it. Remember the reader will see this ENTIRE situation, not just that one little place where the print page turned in a place where it couldn't be directly shown.

--Joanna

[joannavenneri]

Thanks for all your help. BTW in response to your statement "In that case, what does ANYONE refer to? What would the print reader refer to?" at the end of this book there is a list of photos identified by page one, two, three, etc. Fortunately, I'm not including that list in the book.

[joannavenneri]

That is TOO much. Real life is often like that. However, I do feel that braille readers are resourceful and they do take clues from our excellent formatting. I am GUESSING that those page identifiers are intended to mean something like first, second, fourth, whatever because there is no print label that even a sighted person can access. In that case, I do know that braille readers are adept at doing the same kind of skimming and navigating and those empty page turn indicators serve as landmarks.

What an interesting question! Thanks for posting it.

--Joanna

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