Chris Clemens
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[quote=tjensen]I have been running into this quite a bit. Here in this History book and also a lot in a 3rd grade math book.
It looks to me that I have boxed material on facing pages. I would like to know how this should be treated, how I would continue the regular text, and how the page numbering is supposed to look.
I thought that I was supposed to combine the print page numbers like it says in rule 6 pg 72, but when I looked at example 24 given in the examples section it shows a Transcriber's note stating that ... and the print page number is not combined?Can you help?
Thank you for the advice.Neither of my files .jpg nor .pdf will attach. The site continues to tell me "Max attachment size is 1500kb" so apparently my file is too big? ;)[/quote]
Obviously got the file attached. 😉
EBAE does not have any reference to this.
You can find it in Braille Formats: Rule 1 sect. 16.a
Although not an "official" reference the Literary Lesson Manual: Sect. 2.3 - first paragraph.
You may also want to reference the disclaimer in the 2007 Updates page F2: "... EBAE will have the responsibility for the formation and use of signs, symbols, and indicators. BF will have the responsibility of assigning print-to-braille formats ..."I hope this helps
SaralynI would like to see at least one typical print page that has all these photogaphs, (or maps, or whatever). I need to see exactly what the page looks like and then I can offer a suggestion about how to present it in braille.
--Joanna
I'll answer my own question. Didn't read far enough. Rule 2(8) "Print page information"
tells me what I need to know.
The best encouragement I can offer in response to your plea for the Nemeth Code to provide us with a specific rule for unitemized main entries with subdivisions, such as a bulleted list is this: The Nemeth Code is not an independent code meant to cover every aspect of a textbook publication. We use all of the resources available to us regarding a literary braille transcription in addition to those that specifically apply to technical works using the Nemeth Code. Some Nemeth formats or rules supersede those followed in a literary work; those not mentioned rely on the literary codes to supply us with rules and suggestions. Your consistent application of whatever format you decide applies will produce an excellent transcription.
A math/science book is not entirely written in mathematical symbols. It contains narrative, illustrations, tables, and --yes-- bulleted lists. As a transcriber your concern is to present the material in a manner which will be consistent so the reader can discern an order that should help with the comprehension of the material. Formats, in any code, are developed in order to attain this goal. The most recent revision of the Nemeth Code came to us in 1972. Its rules have survived three major revisions in the literary braille codes. If there had been overlap written into the Nemeth Code, it would not have stood this test of time.
The sample you sent in your first post is a chart or table, not itemized material. Charts and tables follow Literary braille rules (Braille Formats). The sample you show in your second post is itemized (numbered 1.) followed by what you call an unitemized list. It is not clear to me whether the original advice was referring to Nemeth Code formats or Braille formats, as both have "main items with subdivisions." Personally, I do not see "Give some names of small animals, etc." as a list, but rather as directive text. It would help to see the original document.
If the new Braille Formats suggests treating bulleted lists as itemized material, we will have more to think about. If the BANA math/science committee feels clarification is needed in the Nemeth Code regarding this topic, they will write one. I am sure they would appreciate hearing your concerns.
According to page 43-44 of the Computer Braille Code, §13., if the key is depicted you would use beginning and ending shape indicators. These symbols should appear on the Special Symbols page. The reader would immediately recognize this as a single keystroke.
[braille]_$k_f3_<
Hope this helps,
BettyApologies for the multiple posts. I wanted to attach the Word document to ensure the transcriber's question came through exactly as he asked it since copying and pasting may have displaced some of his text and formatting.
Marie Amerson
Jan, thank you for your question. There is an important distinction to be made between "plus or minus" and "plus a negative number," for example. Yes, a multipurpose indicator (dot 5) must come between the two operation signs when they are printed side-by-side. All of the examples you write about must have a dot 5 between the two signs, otherwise they will be read vertically. See Nemeth Code Section 134 on page 132 to read the rule and see four examples.
Note that sometimes the print copy will show the second sign slightly raised. If this is what your worksheet shows, you should braille each raised symbol as a left superscript. If your student is not used to seeing this arrangement, encourage the vision teacher to teach it because this is how it is (correctly) brailled on standardized tests. It would do the student a disfavor to have her see it for the first time in a testing situation.
Thank you so much, I have been looking for that exception all over the manual but never could find it. That one little sentence at the end of 19.2b(1) makes a big difference. Now I have to go find the person I was arguing with and tell them I was wrong. 🙁
Hello Georgia Braille--
For page 289, I would present the information in a horizontal position with textures and a key because there is not enough room across the page to place all the 1/6 labels. If you tried to place the 1/6 labels on the drawing, you would have to stagger the labels between multiple lines which would require multiple lead lines. These multiple lead lines would compete and possibly hinder the reader from finding/interpreting the important blue grouping brackets shown in print. You would have to make sure the textures were very different and that there was a definite "break" between the textures so that the student would be able to see where one area texture ended and the other area texture began.For page 297--TG Graphics Guidelines, Unit 6.5.1.8 states, "Ordinary numeric and alphabetic labels should be placed below the number line regardless of their placement in print." So the first thing is that the numbers would have to be placed below the number line in braille even though they were above the number line in print. I would also omit some of the numbers so that you were able to get as many of the horizontal labels across one braille line as possible. The circled empty strips could be done two ways--
Option A. If you're doing collage, you could draw in the strips (either by hand or Tiger) using a low relief dotted line. The circles could be superimposed on top of the strips using a medium weight texture so that you could definitely tell the different between the two textured lines.
Option B. You could omit the strips and use the General Sign of Omission for each empty square with circles around each grouping of 4 omission signs.
Regardless of which method you chose, they would be placed directly under the number line as shown in print.
I'm going to send an email to Betty Marshall (NBA Nemeth chair) to have her review my response and see if she has a different opinion from a Nemeth perspective.
Diane
MUCH better. Thanks for taking the extra effort. I have a solution to suggest but I need one more answer. Is there a place in the book that lists out the symbols and gives the definition? If there is such a page, please scan and send it. I see the symbols now, but I want to see the print--how the book actually defines each symbol, if there is such a page. If there isn't, just let me know and we'll use what we have. I want to know, for instance, whether the book identifies the symbol as "ounce" or "oz," and so forth.
--Joanna
