joannavenneri
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Thanks for the interesting question. It's so interesting that I find it requires a little research. I've consulted on it and I'll post an answer as soon as I get it.
--Joanna
Hi Kathy,
Joanna here. I've been asked to try to help. The settings I'd like to see are in Braille2000 printer options, not the actual printer settings. I've attached two pdf's. The first one shows how to get into printer options and the second shows the settings I'd like to see. Those are the settings in the box. Yours will not necessarily be the same as mine. Just list the settings for each item in the boxes that you show on YOUR computer.
I MIGHT be able to tell something. Let's see. If not, we can ask Bob Stepp, but I'm sure he'll want to see these settings anyway.
--Joanna
I consulted extensively on this and I'm copying over the response I just gave to the other blank line question that came in just before yours. That question is almost identical to yours and raises the very same issues. The person was asking primarily about the bottom box line, but the answers applies to all formats that require a blank line before and after and how that relates to the page turn indicator. This is the response I gave:
I suggest a trip over to Appendix C Blank Lines. The appendix does try to pull together and summarize wide-ranging topics, such as this one.
The new concept in Formats 2011 is that the page change indicator does not change anything about the use of blank lines UNLESS there is more than one format involved.
The bottom box line ends a print page. Since a blank line follows a box, there is a blank line between the bottom box line and the page change indicator. BUT if that next print page starts with a cell-5 heading, which requires another blank line, the first blank line, after the bottom box line, is omitted and the page change indicator follows immediately, followed by a blank line and the cell-5 heading. And yes, it is true that there is no exception listed in 7.2.1b, but 1.10.3c and Appendix C both say that in such cases, when two blank lines are required across a page turn indicator, the first blank line is omitted.
This same situation is true for lists and for any format that requires a blank line before and after.
The easiest way I found to see this is in the Sample 8-2. This has to do with lists, but this works for boxes as well.
At the end of the print page, look at the format that comes after the ending box, or list or whatever. Does that next format require a blank line preceding? If the box is followed by a plain old indented paragraph or something that does NOT require a blank line, the box (or list, etc.) has a blank line followed by the page turn indicator. Sample 8-2 shows this.
If the NEXT format requires a blank line preceding, then omit the blank line BEFORE the page change indicator.
Please let us know if this can be clarified further.
--Joanna
I suggest a trip over to Appendix C Blank Lines. The appendix does try to pull together and summarize wide-ranging topics, such as this one.
The new concept in Formats 2011 is that the page change indicator does not change anything about the use of blank lines UNLESS there is more than one format involved.
The bottom box line ends a print page. Since a blank line follows a box, there is a blank line between the bottom box line and the page change indicator. BUT if that next print page starts with a cell-5 heading, which requires another blank line, the first blank line, after the bottom box line, is omitted and the page change indicator follows immediately, followed by a blank line and the cell-5 heading. And yes, it is true that there is no exception listed in 7.2.1b, but 1.10.3c and Appendix C both say that in such cases, when two blank lines are required across a page turn indicator, the first blank line is omitted.
This same situation is true for lists and for any format that requires a blank line before and after.
The easiest way I found to see this is in the Sample 8-2. This has to do with lists, but this works for boxes as well.
At the end of the print page, look at the format that comes after the ending box, or list or whatever. Does that next format require a blank line preceding? If the box is followed by a plain old indented paragraph or something that does NOT require a blank line, the box (or list, etc.) has a blank line followed by the page turn indicator. Sample 8-2 shows this.
If the NEXT format requires a blank line preceding, then omit the blank line BEFORE the page change indicator.
Hope this helps.
--Joanna
Thanks for your patience. I have consulted about this one and we have a recommendation.
It is noted that this is an unusual situation. Formats 2.12.1 says "The first item listed in the table of contents is generally considered the first page of the main body of the book." GENERALLY. The recommendation is that the acknowlegements should follow print order and come before the contents as in print. However, use p-page numbers for the acknowledgements and the contents and start regular Arabic braille page numbers with the next text item in the contents. In other words, GENERALLY the first item in contents is given the first regular braile page number, but not in this case because of the unusual print order.
--Joanna
There is another post with the same question. I am consulting about the answers and I'll post that as soon as I have it. Thanks for the great question. You're not the only one asking the same thing!
--Joanna
I have deleted my previous post to this question because I blew it! I didn't see the second page to your attachment. Please disregard what I said there if you had read already, and I'll be be soon with a better answer.
--Joanna
I agree with your solution. Since this is the ONLY place in the volume where the Nemeth notation is needed, place your transcriber's note before the table as you gave it. Then use the beginning and end Nemeh indicators right there in the table where they are needed. There are only two columns, so I think it will fit in the second column. And not to be picky, I think there IS provision for subscript notation. The provision is to use Nemeth for it. And they even tell you how.
--Joanna
This is a very good question, but I don't see displayed material on these pages. Text that is printed with a font attribute is not necessarily displayed. Please review the fundamentals in displayed material in 9.1.1, especially the print examples that are shown. There are probably formatting decisions that need to be made regarding the font attributes, but that's all I see here. Even though displayed text is often characterized by font attributes, it is NOT true that any text that happens to be printed in a different attribute is automatically considered displayed, because of the attribute.
If that explanation isn't working for you, please feel free to indicate the text that you feel is displayed and it can be discussed further.
--Joanna
Not having seen the actual print, but going on what you describe, it sounds just like 2.8.1c--advertising and blurbs and it should be omitted. If this had been another type of material that clearly should be included and simply does not carry print page numbering, then 1.10.6, unnumbered pages would apply. You can simply omit this material.
--Joanna
I don't see superscript numbers. I wonder if I could see an image of the actual print page, not copy. This would enable me to see the context. It would enable me to see whether the rules for line numebered text apply, for instance. I can't tell from this.
However, my best guess is that the superscript can be isgnored and this is most certainly is NOT line numbered text. I would follow print and enter the numbers preceding each sentence as given. Follow print for paragraphing, meaning do NOT start a new paragraph for each numbered item. If there is not punctuation between the number the sentence that follows, just leave a space in braille. I don't see a space between number 7 and the sentence, but I assumle that is a typo because the rest of the numbers are spaced.
--Joanna
This is an unusual print configuration in several respects, particularly in that the numbered items appear to be source information about the exercise item. In a case like this, I suggest establishing a format that is consistent and based on the guidelines and the reader will see that pattern.
The issue is not that the indentions are the same, but that the RUNOVERS are the same based on the number of levels. In the Louisa May Alcott situation I see a series of displayed paragraphs all on the same level. I think it best to keep this simple and since I personally read these paragraphs as being on the same level, the runovers and indentions will be the same. In this way, there are only two levels, the numbered and lettered items. The numbered item is 1-5 and the letter item is 3-5.
I like 10.7 for this. It deals with the displayed paragraphs in item 5 and the displayed poetry in item 6. The actual directions are blocked in cell 5 and the displayed paragraphs are in 7-5 with a blank line in between them. See Examples 10-3 and 10-4.
--Joanna
Sorry for the delay in responding. I have been away attending the recent BANA meeting. Thank you for the additional print examples. I will be back shortly with a suggestion.
--Joanna
Joanna,
I need to ask another question in regards to the level settings on this exercise question. I am talking about the last exercise question that I posted in the first attached example.
To be consistent with all our subdivisions or (answers) for our main questions shouldn't they always have the same starting cell? Ex:
cell 3 regardless of runover?
A)
B) ...I attached another example to see if this one would also fall under the same settings.
My thoughts on the first exercise question in the new attachment is:
5) from ... set at 1-7 main item
Read ... 5-7 sub-subdivision
blank
Louisa May Alcott ... is a displayed para so I should set this in a blocked 5-5 or para 7-5?
blank
Which part ... 5-7 sub-subdivision
A) spending
B) ... this is my subdivision (I was told that my answers are always the subdivision of my main) setting at 3-7
