joannavenneri
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The rules you refer to are Braille Formats and since we are looking at Formats rule, this question is posted in the wrong place. This needs to be over in Formats. But since it's here, I'll answer it here.
This is a foreign language in an English context and that is why it doesn't belong here. Rule 6 tells you to use the braille for the inverted queston mark and exclamation. Do that and list in Special Symbols. Since this is 3rd grade I would suggest that you identify these as inverted (upside down) question marks/exclaamation point to make the language more appropriate.
As you have noted, Rule 1 says to use the dot 4 for the accented letters. I don't understand what you mean about combining these rules. They are two separate rules that address two separate issues. Rule 1 addresses the accented letters (use dot 4) and Rule 6 addresses the puncutation. There is nothing to combine. Use Rule 1 where it applies, use Rule 6 where it applies.
The foreign language rules apply to foreign language textbooks. This is not a foreign language textbook, is it? And the issues you have here are addressed in Braille Formats. That's why these rules are even IN Braille Formats. Braille Formats is about how to do braille in a textbook. The foreign language rules in Braille Formats are about how to do foregn language that appears in non-foreign language textbooks. (And of course translated glossaries are different because the context changes.)
Hope this helps.
--Joanna
You have done a fine job of sorting through the various issues that this pages presents. I do have a couple of concerns and suggestions to address those.
On the monkey (Canta) item, please note that there is a clear difference between a picture description and a picture caption. The monkey picture has no captions and therefore must be described in a transcriber's note. The colons that you have do not belong there. Colons are part of the format used for captions. So, the TN here should read like a TN, which are the transcriber's words added to the text. The description needs to be clear enough for someone who can't see the page. Your description, two monkeys jumping and two monkeys sitting is fine for someone who can see the page. But this does not tell the blind reader WHICH monkeys are sitting and WHICH monkeys are jumping. It does not even tell the reader how many monkeys there are. I would describe this by saying that there are four pictures of a monkey. The first and third pictures show the monkey jumping and the second and fourth pictures show the monkey sitting. No colons. Keep the TN indicators.
On the Aprende item, I note that you have handled the caption correctly. The purpose of the colon is to make it very clear to the reader that this is a caption of words PRESENT IN PRINT. That is why the colon is so important. No TN indicators here, which is correct, because this is not a transcriber's note. The description follows as a TN with indicators. That's a great description that I'm sure the reader will find helpful.
On the Escucha item--This is a tricky formatting situation that you have handled very well. However, I am concerned about the English picture words on the same line as you have. The English words are NOT in the print and are, in fact, added by the transcriber. That makes them transcriber's notes, which you have correctly enclosed in TN indicators. However, there it NO provision anywhere for a TN to be located any place other than 7-5. Therefore, these TN's CANNOT be on the same line. I would place the TN's on the next line in 7-5.
--Joanna
Well look at that and right you are. I would just follow print here. Compound hyphen for the opening quote puncutation double dash for missing word.
[braille]336---- puso otro
--Joanna
Here is the braille page. The pictures in question are at the bottom of the page. The braille is marked with an arrow. Thanks.
Do you have actual print that shows that? It would seem to me that the question mark would before BEFORE the opening quote dash. I would like to see print that shows this.
If the question mark comes first, which I think it would in most cases if the dialog starts with a question, follow print order. Question mark compound hyphen double dash.
--Joanna
When you said it was a religious text, I thought you meant the whole book was religious text with translated material. Again, the context is what decides whether foreign language rules are used here and I'm still not totally clear on the context. Is this the only instance of the Danish? The nature of the book itself is what determines the context. If the narrative is English and this Danish material is just there as part of the narrative, as it appears to be in this case, this is considered English context. The Danish is uncontracted and the accented letters are preceded by dot 4. Foreign language rules would apply only if this material was actually translated and/or the reader needs to know the actual Danish and so forth. Foreign language rules usually apply in instructional material that is instructing in a foreign language with English instructions and other English material.
Based on the sample you have sent, this is English context material and I would not use foreign language rules. However, if you decide otherwise. the Danish alphabet symbols must be listed as special symbols. The Danish is uncontracted.
They are:
[braille]> æ a-e ligature
[braille][ ø o slashed
[braille]* å a overringBut again, in this context, I think you can just use the dot 4 accent indicator.
Thank you for sending the print page. It was very helpful.
--Joanna
It is a religious text--English with this Danish prayer. Have attached the prayer and surrounding text.
Thanks in advance, JacquieSorry, but the paragraphs you have asked about are NOT indented. I know this is confusing beccause the entire paragraph does appear to be indented in print. Howeer, that arrangement is ignored in braille. The FIRST LINE only of a paragraph determines whether it is indented in braille.
When all the lines of a paragraph start at the same margin, as these do in your print, the paragraph is BLOCKED and all of it is blocked in cell 1 with runovers also in cell. There should be blank line before and after such a paragraph. When the FIRST LINE ONLY of a paragraph is indented relative to the rest of the paragraph, that first line is also indented to cell 3 in braille with runovers in cell 1.
This is a basic formatting rule and is not unique to foreign language, even though this text happens to be foreign language braille. Since you have paragraphs in the midst of this exercise material, have a blank line before and after each of these paragraphs and block each such paragraph in cell 1 as described above. The material before and after the paragraph should be in the exercise format you have established.
--Joanna
I truly appreciate the situation. The new Formats rules are under BANA review. When that process if completed, the FL rules will follow. The new FL rules will also need to be revised to conform to the new Formats rules as much as possible.
For now, continue with the current NBA publication. However, if you find a situation that is not covered adequately by the current FL rules (Glossaries at the back of the book, Glossaries and lists of translations within lessons or chapters, etc.) you can consult the new rules, which are are authorized for use by BANA with the understanding that those rules may eventually change at the time of adoption and publication. However, any of those new rules will be correct at the time of transcription. Please do not hesitate to post such situations here and we will provide a valid suggestion based on status at that time.
The situation is in flux right now. BANA understands this.
--Joanna
There is sometimes confusion on this point. Follow exactly what it says to do in the Interim Manual with regard to the punctuation you mentioned, which is the same as it is in English. The differences you mention occur in other Spanish-speaking countries, such as Mexico, Central and South America, and of course, Spain. The braille authorities in THOSE countries determine what rules they will follow. The rules given in the Interim Manual are based on BANA rules (Braille Authority of NORTH America) and apply to transcriptions done here for students in this country. Of course you'll find there is provision in the Interim Manual for certain print characters that occur in the foreign language, such as the inverted exclamation point and question mark and other types of print notation that occur in Spanish regarding numbers as well as the conversational dash.
Please let us know if you need further clarification.
--Joanna
DBT users have a CBC style that is used for both inline and displayed computer notations of emails and web addresses. No need to hand enter anything.
You might also try to save the PDF as a Text file. You can open the text file into Notepad, Wordpad or WORD and develop your copy and paste from there. Another option would be investing into a PDF converter software. I use Abbyy file transformer and it runs about $100.00. YOu can transform PDF to WORD, RTF, TEXt, etc. You might do a google search and see if there is any freeware that will also work for you to transform PDF files.
