[kdejute]

Linda,

I would place the number indicator before the comma, because I would want to treat the comma the same way that we would treat a decimal that begins a number.

So, for something like 1,478 I would use the attached braille.

Thank you for the well-described question.

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[kdejute]

Susan,

Kudos to you for spending quality time with the Guidance for Nemeth in UEB.

First, if displayed mathematical material and its opening and terminating indicators will all fit on one line together, it is suggested that this be done.

Second, if displayed mathematical material takes up more than one line, then the opening Nemeth Code indicator could legitimately be placed  at the end of the text that precedes the displayed material or in the first cells of the line on which the displayed material begins.
The examples you reference illustrate these two options. On page 4 of the Guidance, the opening Nemeth Code indicator is placed at the end of the text that precedes the displayed material and so does not mess with the alignment of the linked material that follows.
On page 6 of the Guidance, the opening Nemeth Code indicator is on a line with the beginning of the displayed material. It does not muddy the alignment of the displayed material or affect its line breaks. If the opening Nemeth Code indicator in this example had been placed at the end of the preceding text, it would have forced another line, because it would not fit on the braille line with the end of the text that precedes the displayed material.

Last but not least, if displayed mathematical material takes up more than one line, then the Nemeth Code terminator could legitimately be placed on the same line as the end of the displayed material (if that material is NOT spatial) or on a line by itself. Most of the time, the terminator will fit and should be placed on the same line as the end of the displayed material.

So, when deciding where to place Nemeth Code indicators when nonspatial displayed material takes up more than one line, consider 1) alignment of the displayed material, 2) line breaks of the displayed material, and 3) line breaks of the preceding text.

–Kyle

[kdejute]

Good day, Susan:

Thank you for the question.

First, I would say you are right on the money with your analysis of how to treat a single fully capitalized literary word that occurs between two math expressions. The single-word switch indicator should precede the capitalized word indicator and the word itself. The following space would terminate the effect of both the single-word switch indicator and the capitalized word indicator.

Second, without addressing a specific example, I cannot give you a cut-and-dry answer regarding typeform on a single word within a Nemeth Code, because the use of typeforms within Nemeth Code depends on the meaning conveyed by the tyepform. For example, in the circumstance outlined on page 11 of the Guidance for Transcription Using the Nemeth Code within UEB Contexts, the typeform must be retained because its meaning is mathematical.
In the rare circumstance where you had to retain typeform for a clearly literary word that was located between two mathematical expressions, the single-word switch indicator should precede the typeform indicator and the word itself.
If you can, please do share a specific example where a typeform must be retained for a single literary word that occurs between two mathematical expressions.

Thank you again for the well-expressed question.

[kdejute]

Neither the Chemistry Code nor the Nemeth Code says that you should omit the English letter indicator with the chemical SYMBOL "N" when it is not combined with any other letter, operator, or indicator. So, in a sentence like, "We use N as the symbol for nitrogen." the "N" should be preceded by an English letter indicator and a capital indicator.

As for "DNA," if you are transcribing in literary code or Nemeth (not Chemistry Code), DNA would be double-capped and punctuated according to EBAE.

So, in your NEMETH-EBAE transcription:
CO (the chemical SYMBOL, or formula, for carbon monoxide) would be ,c,o
DNA (the abbreviation for deoxyribonucleic acid) would be ,,dna
RNA (the abbreviation for ribonucleic acid) would be ,,rna
ATP (the abbreviation for adenosine triphosphate) would be ,,atp
S (the chemical SYMBOL for sulfur) would be ;,s

[kdejute]

Good day, Janice!

I think this might actually be a UEB question. Using dot 5 at the end of a braille line as a continuation indicator is indeed a UEB rule.

Nonetheless, to answer your question, I see no reason (in the Rules of UEB, in the UEB Guidelines for Technical Material, nor in Braille Formats)  not to follow print. I would insert a dot 5 at the end of the last line on the first print page, and continue that web address on the line after the page change indicator, just as it is in print.

If you need further enforcement for this decision, you might repost your question in the Braille Formats forum of Ask an Expert.

Have a most excellent Thursday!
–Kyle

[kdejute]

When transcribing according to the “Provisional Guidance for Transcription Using the Nemeth Code within UEB Contexts” or the upcoming “Guidance for Transcription Using the Nemeth Code within UEB Context," tactile graphics can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

If a graphic occurs between two items that must be in Nemeth Code, then Nemeth Code should almost always be left in effect for the graphic.
If a graphic is not flanked by material that must be in Nemeth Code, then the transcriber has to determine whether Nemeth must be used for that specific graphic.
If a graphic is not flanked by material that must be in Nemeth Code, and nothing in the graphic would need to be in Nemeth mode in the text, then I would not use Nemeth anywhere in that graphic.

Alternatively, all graphics can be transcribed in Nemeth mode. In this case, a TN at the beginning of the volume should alert the reader to this arrangment, which is most useful when all or nearly all graphics in a transcription require Nemeth to be used.

If that does not fully address your question, or if you have follow-up concerns, please do not hesitate to post again.

Thank you.

–Kyle

[kdejute]

I think I must say that, in this case at least, Formats guidelines that apply to the displayed literary material and require a blank line before it do trump Nemeth formatting that says a blank line should not follow instructions.

Thank you for your incisive follow-up.

–Kyle

[kdejute]

Thank you for the question.

I suggest you treat the information that begins "All of the used hardcover books ..." as displayed literary material.

The attached file shows the formatting I suggest. Many of my decisions for this example are based on material from BANA's document Application of the Formats Guidelines 2011 to Nemeth Transcriptions.

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[kdejute]

Really this is a UEB and not a Nemeth question, and UEB is not my particular field of expertise.

Still, I can tell you the following:

• The use of a UEB grade 1 symbol, word, or passage indicator depends on the symbols-sequence(s) that is/are being put into grade 1.
• The numeric indicator sets grade 1 mode.
• When a numeric indicator, which sets grade 1 mode, is preceded by material, a grade 1 indicator may be needed for that preceding material. The "size" of grade 1 indicator chosen (symbol, word, or passage) depends on the extent of the preceding material.

For further information, please re-post this question in the UEB Ask an Expert forum.

[kdejute]

Yes. Yes, you are on the right track when you transcribe comments in words in UEB.

I would do precisely what you've done in the included example, using the single-word switch indicator for a comment that is only one word but closing and then re-opening Nemeth mode for any word-based comment longer than one word.

I apologize for my delay in responding.

Cheers!

–Kyle

[kdejute]

The issue here may be that there is no rigid terminology for discussing methods of transcribing technical material.

I suggest that when absolute clarity is needed, the following phrases be used:

• "transcribed according to UEB Guidelines for Technical Material"
  • (which means NO Nemeth is used)
• "transcribed according to the "Provisional Guidance for Transcription Using the Nemeth Code within UEB Contexts" or "transcribed according to the "Guidance for Transcription Using the Nemeth Code within UEB Context"
  • (which means Nemeth is used, within Nemeth switch indicators)

[kdejute]

An updated "Guidance for Transcription Using the Nemeth Code within UEB Context" is near completion and will be posted on BANA's website as soon as it is ready.

http://brailleauthority.org/mathscience/math-science.html

–Kyle DeJute

• This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by kdejute. Reason: The updated BANA document is not "Provisional", and so the word "provisional" is not in its title

[kdejute]

Your follow-up information raises a good point: Including "of a yard" and "of an hour" is one thing. It begs the question of what ELSE to include (or not). At this time, I cannot provide a sweeping rule for what to include and what not to include in Nemeth mode. I can, however, offer some thoughts:

I follow your reasoning about "cup" versus "cup of water". And, by extension I would only include "cup" in the Nemeth mode that is necessitated by the "3/4". I say this because "'3/4 cup' of water", "'3/4 cup' of oil", or "'3/4 cup' of hydrochloric acid" would all be the same "3/4 cup" in volume, so the "of water" does not affect the meaning given by "3/4 cup".

Similarly, I would not include the word "array" in the Nemeth mode needed for "5×5", because 5×5 is the dimension, whether those dimensions are of an "array", a "lawn", or a "room," the dimensions would have the same value.

As with other questions concerning Nemeth material within a UEB context, it is likely that our approach to these issues will evolve as time goes on and our experience grows. Thank you for keeping the conversation active. Please do continue to share your questions.

Sincerely,
Kyle

[kdejute]

In response to your first question, I would say that "of a yard" and "of an hour" should be included within the Nemeth switch indicators that are necessitated by the fractions 2/3 and 3/4.
These phrases perform the same function that "centimeters" or "km" would if they followed the numeric measurements; they are integral to the meaning of the numbers. So, they should be included in the "Nemeth bubble" uncontracted and without using single-word switch indicators.

 

UPDATE!!!

Further discussion and consideration have led to these conclusions:

• A phrase like "of a yard" or "of an hour" is not a unit of measure like "yard" and "hour" and would not be put inside the switches.
• When a word is not directly adjacent to a number that must be in Nemeth mode, the word is not considered a unit of measure.
• Some examples
  • ".5 yard" and ".5 of a yard" would be treated differently, with ".5 yard" all in Nemeth and ".5 of a yard" having only ".5" in Nemeth
  • ".75 cup of water" would have ".75 cup" in Nemeth but not "of water"
  • ".5 bag of marbles" should probably have only ".5" in Nemeth ... because "bag" is not a standardized unit of measure

The conclusions above must change my answer to your original question. However, I urge you to do what is necessary in order to produce a consistent and clear transcription.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by kdejute.

[kdejute]

Good day, Susan!

For the example you sent (Thank you for the scan!), and others like it, I would suggest using square symbols of shape to represent the boxes representing omission.

This preserves the print's use of "boxes" and lets the reader know how many omissions are indicated.

Since this transcription is for a 4th-grader, the square symbols of shape should be appropriate to the student's knowledge of Nemeth.

If  you have further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to share them.

Cheers!
–Kyle

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