Lindy Walton
Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
You are right that the arrows in your sample are not math arrows. They are lead lines or pointing arrows. I believe tactile graphics would say that the arrowheads be omitted and that the lines not be at a diagonal angle. I suggest you post this question on the tactile graphics forum and see what they recommend.
Laurie, I think the tactile graphics forum would be able to give you better ideas than I can. Can you post your question there? I will watch for their response. This is a puzzle.
Lindy
Hi Connie.
Shapes need to be transcribed in Nemeth, but the entire table does not need to be. Your code-switching decisions depend on what else is in the body of the table. If that square is the only Nemeth item in the table, just the shape symbol can be between Nemeth switch indicators and the rest of the table can be in UEB.
There will always be times when this just simply won't work. In such a case, you can use a different method as long as you explain it in a transcriber's note. This would be the exception, of course. If you can post an image of the print, I can give better advice.
Note that icons follow different rules. An icon can be transcribed in either code.
Lindy
Hi Tonya.
The pdf copy you attached is not page 38, but I think I understand your question.
Yes, that is what I would do. Insert a blank line before #9.
Lindy
Hi Shellee.
Decisions regarding the placement of code switch indicators depends on whether the math is embedded or displayed. Guidelines have been developed in order to strive for consistency. If the pdf example you posted is the same as the B2K file (which cannot be opened in this forum--it needs to be a BRF file), it looks like this might be a displayed expression because your runover line is indented two cells. The preferred layout for a displayed math expression that requires a code switch immediately before and immediately after is that if both switches do not fit on the same line as the expression, the opening switch should be placed at the end of the preceding text. This means that the first cell of the displayed expression will be the math, not the code switch indicator. Flexibility is built in to this guideline depending on pagination issues that are more of an concern when transcribing short documents such as worksheets.
In an embedded format, if only one of the code switches will fit on the line with the math there is no preferred placement. Having said this, however, general transcribing practice is to use as much of the line as possible before beginning a runover line, which means in the case of your example the opening switch may fall at the end of the previous line of text if it fits there.
Lindy
Denise,
Following Nemeth rules, each number that is preceded by a space needs a numeric indicator since this is not an enclosed list (by definition) nor is it a partitioned number. I do not recommend omitting the numeric indicators unless there are pages and pages of this notation.
When following margins for displayed material starting in cell 7, none of the bracketed expressions will fit on one line. A runover will be necessary. Nemeth does not have a continuation indicator. That is a UEB symbol which, of course, cannot be used in Nemeth.
Regarding line 8 of your simulated braille image, the equals sign should not be the only thing on this line. I have attached a transcription using the correct margins for "itemized with subdivisions" format (1-5, 3-5), and its displayed material (7-9). It also shows the recommended placement of the code switch indicators.
Thank you for sending in this interesting problem.
Lindy
Hi Susan.
This notation is common in Physics. The 1972 Nemeth code book has the answer in section 11.c. "The numeric indicator must not be used after a space if the purpose of the space is to partition a numeral into segments." The new (forthcoming) code will not be changing this rule, but in UEB with Nemeth you do need to observe the following details: transcribe a partitioned number in Nemeth; keep the number all together on one line as well as on the same line as the associated abbreviation (in this case, "m").
If the number is too long to fit on one braille line, use as much of the line as you can and then start the runover line with the next segment. Do not insert a hyphen and do not use a numeric indicator at the beginning of the runover line. That would give the wrong impression that it is a new number, which it is not.
Here is how your example will be transcribed in UEB with Nemeth.
,! 4T.E F ,E>? TO ! SUN IS
_% #149 600 000 000 ;M _:4Lindy
Laurie, you are right. Example 1-38 will be removed from the updated copy of Lesson 1. The Nemeth lesson files are still undergoing changes, corrections, and updates, so keep watch of the dates in the filenames.
Lindy
Because a table is not necessarily read left-to-right, top-to-bottom, the code switching rules are different from those in regular narrative. Look at the column headings separately from the data in the body of the table. An opening Nemeth Code indicator in the rightmost column heading does not carry through to the body of the table. Terminate the Nemeth there, then open it again before the body of the table, if the entire table (or most of it) requires Nemeth. Depending on the column headings, it could also be more appropriate to transcribe them all in Nemeth as well (with uncontracted words), or maybe devise a key (not ever my first choice).
Every table presents its own challenges. If you want to send a print sample of what you are looking at, I'd be happy to suggest a transcription method.
Thank you for your interesting question.
Lindy Walton
These expressions are embedded within the paragraph, so you need only put a blank line before and after each grouped set. I don't see a need for a runover when using full margins. See attached brf file.
Let me know if I'm misunderstanding your question.
Lindy
How interesting.
The semicolons should align with the top line of each grouped pair. The comma will be dot 6, followed (unspaced) by a punctuation indicator and the semicolon. It looks odd, but the Nemeth rules are being followed, and it doesn't cause any misunderstanding as far as I can tell.
Here is an excerpt.A0+B0LN (,R1) .K C0,_2
I was not able to open your braille file. I think you need to save it as a BRF file in order for others to see it in this forum.
Let me know if you need more guidance.
Lindy
Shellee, you will love this simple answer.
YES!
When the row headings are words (and the entries are Nemeth), the whole table is transcribed in Nemeth. Because the row headings are included inside the switches, words in the row headings are not contracted. If the row heading consists of one word, as they do in your example, the single-word switch indicator is not used.
Lindy
What a great example! This is a complex fraction showing cancellation without replacement values. The BANA Nemeth committee is suggesting a new way to transcribe cancellation when no replacement values are shown, allowing linear transcription. Although the new Nemeth code book is not yet published, the lesson manual is teaching this method. I suggest you use it here. In the attached brf file, I have shown both ways. The new way combines a spatial rendition of the complex fraction, but the simple fractions within it are transcribed linearly, with appropriate cancellation indicators in place. The old way is entirely spatial. I think the new way is easier to read. See what you think. (brf file attached)
Lindy
Hi Shellee.
Including the switch indicators within the box lines is format option 2. in the "Guidance for Transcription Using the Nemeth Code within UEB Contexts" and will also be in the new Nemeth code. However, there are no examples of consecutive boxes like you have in your example. Since box lines may be transcribed in either UEB or Nemeth, and since Nemeth continues after that first bottom box line, I see no problem waiting until the end of the second bottom box line to terminate Nemeth code.
Lindy
Hi Michael.
Please accept our apologies for not seeing your question until recently. I am stumped by your dilemma. Have you summoned the advice of the tactile graphics committee? They may have some ideas regarding the colors in this complicated table.I am sure you would have no trouble dividing this table vertically into (many!) sections in order to show the vertical relationships of the items, but the color correlation would of course be lost.
I would be curious to find out how you solve this one.
Thank you for your question.- Lindy
